Interview: Margaret Cho

Originally published in Verbicide issue #20

Hosting the True Colors Tour, releasing a directorial debut, and wrapping up a new film starring Yunjin Kim, all in one summer, is a humble list of accomplishments in the life of Margaret Cho.

Thirteen years ago, America noticed Cho in its very first Asian-American TV sitcom. When the producer-controlled show bombed (Cho had no creative say in it), Cho fell with it for a short time — then rose back up to hack a niche into a whitewashed entertainment industry whose only other nod to the existence of Asian-Americans had been, well, never. But this is ancient history now — four feature stand-up films, two books, and countless tours later, Cho has long been a pro at being in control. And though it must have been hard at first, we’re grateful to her for staying and fighting: on anyone’s list of accomplishments, succeeding as a no-shit-taking, stereotype-shattering female comic in a brutal entertainment world might be the most awe-inspiring. And we can’t wait to watch her this summer.

To begin with, how do you identify yourself?
I guess I’m a comedienne. I know I’m an artist. I’m also a writer, a filmmaker, a dancer, a tattoo collector. I’m also an editor. What else do I do? I guess I do a lot of things. I’m an actor, too. But the main focus of my art probably has been my stand-up comedy.

Are you focusing on comedy right now?
Yes, yes. I’m going to be going on tour this summer with the True Colors Tour, which is a big music tour, but I’ll be performing comedy. Who are some of the other comediennes? I think Rosie O’Donnell is going to be joining on one of the dates. It’s a great tour with Cyndi Lauper, with Debby Harry, Erasure — it’s exciting.

What are you the most proud of, of all those things?
I guess that I’ve been able to make a lot of films. That I’m able to record what I’ve done as a stand-up comedienne over the years — four feature stand-up comedy films. Lots and lots of other different recordings like that, like CDs. And I’ve been on tour a long time. I’m proud that I’ve been able to keep going, and remain prolific, and that there’s still work.

I saw your “Your Puss” video, and I thought it was hilarious.
Oh, thank you.

Why have you chosen to use humor as a tool for bringing up issues?
I think it’s a good medium, because it disarms people and you can get a message across. It’s just fun — to me, it’s very fun to be able to use humor to do different things. It’s kind of the way that I would prefer to communicate most of the time. I think it’s ideal for talking about everything that may be volatile, like sexuality, or politics, or gender…all those things are illuminated through humor.

I love comedy, and there’s a lot of things I love to watch. There’s a TV show called “Little Britain”; I think it’s really funny. I love to go see stand-up comics. There’s a lot of comedy out there right now. I think comedy has experienced quite a renaissance currently, so there are a lot of great people out there to go see.

What do you mean by “renaissance?”
There’s a lot of good comedy happening. Even in the comedy clubs, there are a lot of people and nobody would even know their names, but they’re just really funny. It’s really great.

Backtracking a little — can you talk about some of the challenges of starting off in stand-up comedy at age 16?
It was actually great, because I was able to get out and do what I wanted to do. I think that it’s really hard a lot of times for Asian-American kids because their families pressure them into careers they don’t really want to do, that they don’t choose themselves. That’s really hard, I think, because a lot of Asian kids don’t get to [choose their] career, and do what their parents want them to do. They always consider what their parents want for them as more important than what they want for themselves — so I’m lucky that I didn’t care what my parents wanted, I did what I wanted. It’s really unheard of for a Korean kid to drop out of high school, but I did. I guess the challenging thing was that I didn’t have any familial support or any kind of guidance in that way.

I had to find different kinds of role models. Rosie O’Donnell was very helpful, she was very good to me. She put me on her television show at the time, on HBO, and gave me lots of advice and was very kind. People like Roseanne were very kind, very supportive. In this way, having that kind of support, having to look for it, was good because it made me more independent. That’s always the challenge, and that’s probably why you don’t see a lot of Asian kids in the arts, pursuing artistic careers, because you don’t have traditional familial support there.

How has your relationship with your parents changed due to stand-up comedy?
They’re really supportive now. It’s great. Because I’ve worked really hard for a long time and created an industry for myself I’ve become successful, and it’s nice because they love what I do. It was hard at the beginning because they just didn’t know what to make of it and were terrified of what my future was going to be.

You mentioned Rosie O’Donnell — what is your take on the recent Rosie O’Donnell incident?
With the “ching chong” thing?

Yeah.
Oh, I think that it’s funny because — really — I can understand…it underlines a casualness about race in talks about Asians. Whenever anyone is talking about Asians, there is a relaxed idea about being racist towards them. And I know Rosie O’Donnell very well, and I know that she is not a racist. I know really well that she is not. It just shows you that even people who are not racist can have a casual attitude. It’s not her fault, it’s the fault of society in general — it’s the fault of society that we don’t pay attention to racial issues beyond black and white. There is a great insensitivity towards race when you’re talking about anybody except African-Americans. We need to put more fear into the hearts of white people. That’s what it’s all about: we have to figure out a way to make white people scared of us, but they are not. They’re scared of black people. So we have to figure out a way to make them afraid. It’s a very complicated thing — how do you make people afraid of you? There’s no real way of finding that except just to say it plainly, like, “just try, we have to make them afraid.” I’m not sure how you do that, I keep looking for that.

The media generally doesn’t like inflammatory women. I just reviewed Assassin the other day, and you say you called it “Assassin” because you wanted to incite that fear. How do you feel you’ve been received among popular media?
I think pretty well. It’s weird what people pay attention to. I have a blog and I wrote this thing about Gwen Stefani — you know, how she has her “Harajuku girls?” They’re her background dancers, but they’re described as figments of her imagination. When I first saw them I thought they were really cute and really great, and I still think they’re really great in a way. But the way she described them was so offensive to me. She was saying, “They’re figments of my imagination; they’re not real people.” Like they’re her ideas that float around her — and that to me was very shocking. She gets so much coverage that the media really picked up on that, and tried to create this war between her and me. But really, my main focus isn’t really her. It’s just that there’s such a lack of images of Asian women in the media, so that the ones we have are so overly scrutinized that we have to pay so much attention to them. And I felt, this isn’t really fair, we can’t even be real people — we just have to be figments of Gwen Stefani’s imagination? That’s really not right.

I didn’t want it to be a war against her, because I’m actually very supportive of her as an artist. I think she’s a great woman, and I think she’s a really great artist. And she’s a very viable role model for a lot of people, and I think that’s great. But it’s weird when the media picks up on those things, like I’m a weird “racial party pooper.” And she commented on [my blog] and she said that, “[I] didn’t do my research” when it came to the Harajuku girls. I just thought it was funny, because I didn’t know I had to do research to be Asian, or to be offended by another Asian image, in order to talk about it. It gets convoluted and strange and starts to get uncomfortable. But, I think it’s a good thing because it’s one of the first steps to making white people afraid of me.

(laughter) Is making straight men afraid part of the plan, too?
It’s all included. (laughter) It’s not even about making people afraid, it’s about making people aware of things. Aware of inequalities. Using humor isn’t so scary, isn’t so painful. If you use humor and talk about things frankly, it’ll make people think about things. When you come at something without humor, it scares people and makes them upset. But if you can do it in a humorous way and find that sensitivity there — I think it’s really important in rectifying injustices in society. Not just racially, but also in terms of gender equality, sexual orientation, those things are very important to me as well.

Was there a point in your career where you felt a shift towards more political topics?
I think it was gradual. In my life, that became more interesting. There was not a point where I consciously tried to do that. It was more of a shift in myself, as anybody [experiences] when they get older — they become more concerned with the world, as opposed to just “their” world.

You’ve kind of answered this already. But have you ever felt this was a role thrust upon you?
I don’t think so. It’s more what I liked, what I thought was funny, what I felt was interesting.

“All-American Girl” aired about 13 years ago now, and featured the first Asian-American family on TV. You’ve talked about Gwen Stefani…how would you measure the progress that has been made since 1994?
I think there are quite a few differences. [On] some shows we have one Asian….one Asian character (laughter) I think racially things have gotten a little bit better. I’d like to see another attempt at a show that features an all-Asian family — that would be exciting to me. I don’t see that happening. I think one of the issues is there is so much division within the Asian-American community racially; “nationality” is so hotly contested that people don’t understand in America we’re all seen as “Asian” — there is no differentiation. There is no nationality-specific ideation about Asians, there really isn’t. White people are never going to know the difference. Everyone looks at Asians as the same. But Asians don’t feel that way, because Asians have a long history of different nationalistic ideations. That is a big block in having that kind of unity that the African-American community has. Like, the African-American community has such a long history in America that they don’t have that division anymore of, “you’re from this country, you’re from that country, so I don’t like you.” That has gone away. So maybe in a couple of centuries we’ll have that sense of unity within the Asian-American community, but it’s going to take a very, very long time.

You’ve faced a lot of prejudices as many racial minorities, women, and members of the queer community have — but what are some of the things you love about these different facets of your identity?
Well, I love that I can constantly be the “other.” I think being the “other” is very powerful, because you can comment on everybody else, and have a lot of insight into everybody else. I think it’s a lot of fun I think within that “otherness,” there’s a lot of community, and that is great. To me, that is almost better than seeing things just like everybody else.

I read that you’re married now. How do you relate to your jokes about promiscuity now that you’re married?
Well, that’s still a part of my life and I can still speak from that. Being married or whatever doesn’t change your history, doesn’t change who you were, or anything. I can speak from my whole life experience.

And now that you’ve lost weight, how do you relate to the jokes you make about dieting?
I totally relate to eating issues and body issues, in whatever body that I happen to have at that moment. It’s the same. You can lose weight physically, but you can never lose it in your mind, or in your mind’s eye, your image of yourself. Those topics and those ideas are very sensitive, and I will relate to them forever. I think I can speak about it with authority, always.

What would you like to do before you die?
I’d like to make more films, do more shows. I’d like to get my whole body tattooed….I’m working on a very elaborate Japanese bodysuit. It’s a big part of my life, tattooing, which I started a few years ago. I have most of my back tattooed, and most of my stomach tattooed. I just had my right arm done. So working on that is a fun meditation, because I’ve had so many body issues throughout my life. Racial issues, too. I’ve found that tattooing is a way to change your skin color. You can be purple, you can be blue, and that to me is very powerful, and a thrilling thing. So that’s an ongoing project.

Do you have any film ideas? Are you working on one right now?
I just finished this film called Two Sisters, and I have another film that’s coming out this summer called Bam Bam and Celeste that I wrote, produced, and starred in. I don’t know exactly what’s next in life.